cheap labour

[Bill C]

Hi Ralf,

Yeah, I care but to let you know I've made sure that I've saved money from my contracts to safe guard myself and my family just incase we hit hard times. I agree with Steve A, maybe China and India are the last frontiers for the true contractor, it will certainly be different so don't knock it too soon.

Who's going to take the time to front this non-profit organization, organize the contract, sort out the personnel, payroll on time and all while it takes these big companies 90 days to pay the bill.
OK, ideally we want lots of money, lots of hours and a perfect studio on Mars, Voila everybody's happy!!!!

I don't think so.
Bill

[Hand Solo]

It sure is awe inspiring to think of these early 'pioneers'.
The 'real contractors' who left their dead end jobs and nagging wives behind for the frozen wastelands of Sweden. Three or four times the cash and more blonde skank than you can shake a stick at, those must have been tough times. Real Heroes! ;D

[R2D2]

Indeed Mr Solo those were the days. All the tax free lolly a bloke could want - money for nothing and the slicks for free- driving across europe trying to avoid the borders. Shame that the nagging wives back home spent most of the cash but never mind it was worth it. Not sure about this cream of the crop thing Mr T is talking about it was more about having a good time and living the dream back then - remember most of uswnet out there on a six week promise and had never been anywhere more exotic than Blackpool before going to Sweden. Not many of us knew what a clay model either.

[CP3O]

Samstheman,

Ive been clay modelling for twenty years and am reasonably confident that I have the appropiate skills.
Are you?
The point I was making was not about skill level, because I dont believe that matters any more, but the monopoly the few agencies have. Dictating rates, the who, the when and the why.
Discussing the good old days of pioneering contracting, which other disciplines such as alias have to thank us clay boys for, is all well and good.

But these were the days when we were respected!

Respect well earnt. Where has it all gone?
Are you suggesting that to regain that respect I must travel to China or India?
To earn respectable money for the risks taken, I must leave my Wife and Children for 6 months?

Associations employ people. They do so based on the yearly subscriptions of its members. The important fact here is that these figures would be available and agreed by its members and at the end of the year there is no profit.

We are currently paying thousands of pounds each to agencies each and every year, in some cases month, for a services that judging by the postings on this web site are not good enough!
What can we do? Answer-nothing.
Are you happy with this?
Nobody has an answer to my previous posting.
Im off to learn how to be a solicitor.
They earn a nuts load of money for doing f**k all, at least that was my experience after the first divorce!
Caused by contracting.

[visitor]

Cream of the crop!

Bollocks!

Agencies put forward the people they like first and formost.

There are too many good modellers sitting at home reading this and too many milkers sitting in studios laughing.

[not ralf]

NAH NAH NAH NAH NAH

NAH

TWO PINTS OF GOLD TOP

[JohnB]

This topic certainly has raised a few eyebrows and I have read and followed it closely. But lets try and keep our comments above board. I can understand everybodys frustration at the present work situation. At this moment most if not all of us that are luckily in work do not have the option to move to another job. I personally would be looking at other options if they were available. I feel for those guys who are not in work because they still have to live and look after families. It is down to the individual what he decides to do. If you need work then you do what is best for you and your family. Associations/unions what ever you want to call them are a thing of the past. I do not think it would work,it is hard enough to get money out of blokes for tea and coffee let alone an annual subscription! As regards to moving your family on contract I did it 3 years ago and for those who have not done it give it great consideration as it was the hardest thing I ever did. Not so much for me but for my children.Luckily we perservered and it has worked out, but when we did it work was around.Now if I decided to come back I would be sitting around at home unemployed. Hopefully our climate will pick up and we are just going through a transition period. Lets use the forum to keep everybody in touch about work openings and possibilites. One other point why dont we use our names and stand by our comments. What harm can you be doing by putting your name to your comment.It would be nice to know who is taking part in the forum!!!

[Roger Moore]

I'm not sure about raised eyebrows old boy but I do find the whole thing highly amusing.

Having worked many years for her Majesty's Secret Service I can assure you that anonymity can be of the utmost importance. Sometimes it's the only way to reveal the truth.

Take care chaps, there are many double agents still among us.

[The Saint]

Couldnt agree more Roger,

As previously mentioned on this web site, Guys are judged on what they say far more than their capabilities.

Until this attitude changes people are not going to voice their veiws openly. Just in case they upset someone and cannot then get a job.

Thank god Jeff runs this site so opinions can be aired, even if they are anonymous.

[Bemused of Birmingham]

Have never heard of an "association of modellers" or "Guild" in all the history of the industry.

I dont remember starting as a contract clay modeller to get away from them either.

This job gave me a good standard of living with a bit of excitement. There also werent any permy jobs and I didnt think there are now, so contracting is the only option.

Shame things are just so bad.

[James Tiberius Kirk]

John B is hoping that this is just a transition period and that the work
climate is going to pick up. No offense but I don't think it is.
At least not as close to home as you'd like.

China and India the final frontiers? There's no such thing as a final frontier, you've been
watching too much Star Trek Bill C. Interestingly enough these two countries have
the fastest growing economies on the planet. After our noble clay warriors
have conquered and exploited their way to riches and fame over there, what next
for us sons of modelers? How about Iraq? They'll be making their own cars
one day I'm sure. The African Congo? Nearly four million people have lost their
lives there over the last six years due to war and famine. When they've finished
fighting maybe we can move in and have some of that!

As for taking your family on contract I do agree with John B. Do give it great consideration.
I did it and it turned out to be the best decision I ever made.

[Ralf]

Those Germans...........theyre not like us !!!

[Mr P]

I totally agree with Steve.

It is pretty obvious to me that in the future people will have to be far more willing to travel further abroad to the places that have just started to really design their own products.These places are maybe a few years behind compared to Europe and the USA.They may need to use more manual than automated work methods to begin with,until they catch up.

Also with the economic state of the auto industry i think it is inevitable that some studios might fall by the wayside due to tightening of belts and closure of factories,also convergence of some marques into one studio.

Things aren't going to get better,and we better get used to it.

[Bill C]

Kirk dude,

Great sarcasm, you are obviously well set in what ever studio you're at. My statement was merely to point out growing economies that have great potential and have a fledgling auto industry. The whimpering and whining that prevailes on this thread odviously comes from "sons of modelers" otherwise they would be able to cut to the chase and recognize information that is offered freely.

Mr P gets it and our German brethren don't. It states clearly to post in ENGLISH so we better absorb the information before they shut it down. Germany, post so that we can all participate or do you have something to hide?

Bill

[Spock]

Bill C

Sarcasm is something you seem to have in abundance.

This thread was started because of agencies cutting rates to win contracts,with little or no thought about us guys doing the work.

These same agents will not behave differently in India or China.

People are "whinging and whimpering" because this is fundamentally wrong, and this web site is the only outlet.

If anybody openly told the agencies this they would quickly find it even harder to find work.This is the monopoly they have.

The only positive idea or suggestion put forward so far has been an "association" but as per usual it would seem easier to be sarcastic and find fault in this , than it would be to explore it as a possibility and put forward ways for it to work. Or heaven forbid support it.